Generated a 210Bi nucleus at rest on the excited level at 46.539 keV. Only a fraction of the excitation energy is released (transferred to the detector). Same problem observed on other nuclei when excitation energy is typically less than 100 keV. The following is an example with thacking verbosity: ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = Bi210[46.5], Track ID = 1, Parent ID = 0 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 20 13.1 -3.05 0 0 0 0 Source_P initStep 1 20 13.1 -3.05 0 0 0 0 Source_P Scintillation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = e-, Track ID = 3, Parent ID = 1 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 20 13.1 -3.05 0.0302 0 0 0 Source_P initStep 1 20 13.1 -3.06 0.00757 0.0166 0.00289 0.00289 Source_P eIoni 2 20 13.1 -3.06 0 0.00757 0.000501 0.0034 Source_P eIoni 3 20 13.1 -3.06 0 0 0 0.0034 Source_P Scintillation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = e-, Track ID = 4, Parent ID = 3 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 20 13.1 -3.06 0.006 0 0 0 Source_P initStep 1 20 13.1 -3.06 0 0.006 0.00034 0.00034 Source_P eIoni 2 20 13.1 -3.06 0 0 0 0.00034 Source_P Scintillation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = Bi210[0.0], Track ID = 2, Parent ID = 1 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 20 13.1 -3.05 0 0 0 0 Source_P initStep 1 20 13.1 -3.05 0 0 0 0 Source_P Scintillation
Hello, information is not enough. It is necessary to specify: 1) Geant4 version; 2) Physics List; 3) output with /tracking/verbose 2 to see what secondary particles are produced. For part of Physics Lists energy/momentum balance is not guranteed and it is known feature - incomplete de-excitation. VI
1. Geant4 version: both 9.5 and 9.6 2. Physics list: Livermore (but also Penelope) 3. output with /tracking/verbose 2 ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = Bi210[46.5], Track ID = 1, Parent ID = 0 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0 0 0 0 Source_P initStep 1 -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0 0 0 0 Source_P Scintillation :----- List of 2ndaries - #SpawnInStep= 2(Rest= 2,Along= 0,Post= 0), #SpawnTotal= 2 --------------- : -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0 Bi210[0.0] : -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0.0302 e- :----------------------------------------------------------------- EndOf2ndaries Info --------------- ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = e-, Track ID = 3, Parent ID = 1 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0.0302 0 0 0 Source_P initStep 1 -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0 0.0302 0.00577 0.00577 Source_P eIoni 2 -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0 0 0 0.00577 Source_P Scintillation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = Bi210[0.0], Track ID = 2, Parent ID = 1 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0 0 0 0 Source_P initStep 1 -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0 0 0 0 Source_P Scintillation :----- List of 2ndaries - #SpawnInStep= 3(Rest= 3,Along= 0,Post= 0), #SpawnTotal= 3 --------------- : -6.38 2.79 -13.6 4.53e-06 Po210[0.0] : -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0.835 anti_nu_e : -6.38 2.79 -13.6 0.326 e- :----------------------------------------------------------------- EndOf2ndaries Info --------------- 2 0 0 0.03015091890558586
Hello, Both Livermore and Penelope do not responsible for decay of excited nuclei. Can you confirm that you are using G4RadioactiveDecay or you are using something else? I am asking because for me unclear why step of the excited ion is limited by scintillation process and at the end of step produced low-energy e-. All this looks abnormal. A clean way to check is to reproduce the problem in $G4INSTALL/examples/extended/radioactivedecay/rdecay02 - there is macros sub-directory showing how macro file can be created. VI
I followed your suggestion to reproduce the problem in $G4INSTALL/examples/extended/radioactivedecay/rdecay02 I discovered that in the macros sub-directory there are 2 files UserEvapData_z102.a252 UserEvapData_z83.a210 which, according to their authors "sanitize" those in the geant4 data distribution. By using them the problem actually disappears. It should be considered to replace the corresponding files in the RadioactiveDecay and PhotonEvaporation datasets. I assume also that the other similar problems I experienced can be due to problems in the data files. I'll check this.
I apologize but my previous comment was (unfortunately) not correct. I was probably distracted by few good examples but after few trials I now believe that the same problem (energy conservation between nuclear levels and secondaries energies) holds also for the example $G4INSTALL/examples/extended/radioactivedecay/rdecay02 in the geant4 (4.9.6) distribution. I just compiled it (on macosx) and tested using the demonstrative macros. In particular, when trying with the macro file UserEvapDataBiTest.mac a (verbosity 2) output for 210Bi[64.5] level is: ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = Bi210[46.5], Track ID = 1, Parent ID = 0 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Target RadioactiveDecay :----- List of 2ndaries - #SpawnInStep= 5(Rest= 5,Along= 0,Post= 0), #SpawnTotal= 5 --------------- : 0 0 0 0 Bi210[0.0] : 0 0 0 0.00203 e- : 0 0 0 0.00756 e- : 0 0 0 0.00278 e- : 0 0 0 0.0301 e- :----------------------------------------------------------------- EndOf2ndaries Info --------------- ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = e-, Track ID = 6, Parent ID = 1 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 0 0 0 0.0301 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 -2.95e+29 9.14e+28 -9.48e+28 0.0301 0 3.23e+29 3.23e+29 World Transportation 2 -2.95e+29 9.14e+28 -9.48e+28 0.0301 0 1.89e+13 3.23e+29 Detector Transportation 3 -4.79e+29 1.49e+29 -1.54e+29 0.0301 0 2.02e+29 5.25e+29 World Transportation 4 -4.79e+29 1.49e+29 -1.54e+29 0.0301 0 0 5.25e+29 OutOfWorld Transportation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = e-, Track ID = 5, Parent ID = 1 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 0 0 0 0.00278 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 2.44e+28 -4.45e+28 1.54e+29 0.00278 0 1.62e+29 1.62e+29 OutOfWorld Transportation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = e-, Track ID = 4, Parent ID = 1 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 0 0 0 0.00756 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 7.97e+28 -9.28e+27 -1.54e+29 0.00756 0 1.74e+29 1.74e+29 World Transportation 2 7.97e+28 -9.28e+27 -1.54e+29 0.00756 0 0 1.74e+29 OutOfWorld Transportation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = e-, Track ID = 3, Parent ID = 1 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 0 0 0 0.00203 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 2.83e+29 1.22e+29 -8.29e+28 0.00203 0 3.19e+29 3.19e+29 World Transportation 2 2.83e+29 1.22e+29 -8.29e+28 0.00203 0 9.35e+13 3.19e+29 Detector Transportation 3 5.28e+29 2.27e+29 -1.54e+29 0.00203 0 2.75e+29 5.95e+29 World Transportation 4 5.28e+29 2.27e+29 -1.54e+29 0.00203 0 0 5.95e+29 OutOfWorld Transportation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = Bi210[0.0], Track ID = 2, Parent ID = 1 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Target RadioactiveDecay :----- List of 2ndaries - #SpawnInStep= 3(Rest= 3,Along= 0,Post= 0), #SpawnTotal= 3 --------------- : 0 0 0 1.68e-06 Po210[0.0] : 0 0 0 1.09 anti_nu_e : 0 0 0 0.0759 e- :----------------------------------------------------------------- EndOf2ndaries Info --------------- ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = e-, Track ID = 9, Parent ID = 2 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 0 0 0 0.0759 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 -3.33e+28 6.35e+27 -1.54e+29 0.0759 0 1.58e+29 1.58e+29 World Transportation 2 -3.33e+28 6.35e+27 -1.54e+29 0.0759 0 0 1.58e+29 OutOfWorld Transportation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = anti_nu_e, Track ID = 8, Parent ID = 2 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 0 0 0 1.09 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 7.84e+28 2.42e+26 1.54e+29 1.09 0 1.73e+29 1.73e+29 World Transportation 2 7.84e+28 2.42e+26 1.54e+29 1.09 0 0 1.73e+29 OutOfWorld Transportation ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = Po210[0.0], Track ID = 7, Parent ID = 2 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 0 0 0 1.68e-06 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 -3.7e-07 -1.13e-08 -5.89e-07 0 1.68e-06 6.96e-07 6.96e-07 Target ionIoni 2 -3.7e-07 -1.13e-08 -5.89e-07 0 0 0 6.96e-07 Target RadioactiveDecay :----- List of 2ndaries - #SpawnInStep= 2(Rest= 2,Along= 0,Post= 0), #SpawnTotal= 2 --------------- : -3.7e-07 -1.13e-08 -5.89e-07 0.103 Pb206[0.0] : -3.7e-07 -1.13e-08 -5.89e-07 5.3 alpha :----------------------------------------------------------------- EndOf2ndaries Info --------------- ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = alpha, Track ID = 11, Parent ID = 7 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 -3.7e-07 -1.13e-08 -5.89e-07 5.3 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 0.0143 -0.00945 -0.00151 2.68 2.62 0.0172 0.0172 Target ionIoni 2 0.0228 -0.0151 -0.00241 0 2.68 0.0102 0.0274 Target ionIoni ********************************************************************************************************* * G4Track Information: Particle = Pb206[0.0], Track ID = 10, Parent ID = 7 ********************************************************************************************************* Step# X(mm) Y(mm) Z(mm) KinE(MeV) dE(MeV) StepLeng TrackLeng NextVolume ProcName 0 -3.7e-07 -1.13e-08 -5.89e-07 0.103 0 0 0 Target initStep 1 -0.000146 9.59e-05 1.47e-05 0 0.103 0.000175 0.000175 Target ionIoni 2 -0.000146 9.59e-05 1.47e-05 0 0 0 0.000175 Target RadioactiveDecay When considering the 210Bi[46.5] level, the energies of the secondaries don't add to 0.0465.
I found a possible explanation for the "missing energy" problem. If you analize into detail the sequence G4RadioactiveDecay/G4NuclearDecayChannel/G4PhotonEvaporation you'll discover that in most cases the particles from atomic deexcitation are not generated. I arrived this way to G4VAtomicDeexcitation which is responsible for (atomic) particle generation throuth the virtual method GenerateParticles which is implemented in G4UAtomicDeexcitation. Here, in the method SelectTypeOfTransition the variable partialProb is normalized to 1 (corresponding to ALL the atomic shells) while it should be normalized to the available shells. In this way in most of the cases partialProb points to unreachable shells and particles are not generated. However if you renormalize probability to the maximum available shell the problem should be fixed. In other words, the original code: --- original G4UAtomicDeexcitation.cc -------- G4double partialProb = G4UniformRand(); G4double partSum = 0 ; const G4FluoTransition* aShell = transitionManager->ReachableShell(Z,shellNum); G4int trSize = (aShell->TransitionProbabilities()).size(); could be simply changed to --- suggested G4UAtomicDeexcitation.cc -------- G4double partSum = 0 ; const G4FluoTransition* aShell = transitionManager->ReachableShell(Z,shellNum); G4int trSize = (aShell->TransitionProbabilities()).size(); G4double partialProb = G4UniformRand()*aShell->TransitionProbability(trSize-1); I tried this and it looks fine.
Hello, we have checked two things with Geant4 9.6: 1) Alfonso Mantero has refreshed understanding of the atomic de-excitation algorithm and confirm that data are normalized to unit, so extra re-normalisation is not needed. 2) I have checked the example with Geant4 9.6 and on statistics about 1000 events I do not see any case of missing energy. 3) Of course, such statistics is not great and we should think on not visual check but full energy balance check in the code (which may already exist but needs to be activated). 4) In Geant4 in several places if EM particles (e-, gamma) are not produced then their kinetic energy is added to local enery deposit and should be seen in /tracking/verbose as dE(MeV). VI
Laszlo Urban has studied large statistics runs with photoelectric effect and Compton and identified few energy violations which were due to difference in energy levels of neutral and ionized atoms. The fix is provided and is available in 10.0beta. VI
